Breaking Bannock series launched with speakers discussing reconciliation, reciprocity, and relationships

The inaugural Breaking Bannock event, organized by the Gabriola Arts Council, featured guest speakers Gabriolan Katherine Palmer Gordon, and Sqwulutsultun William (Bill) Yoachim, Snuneymuxw First Nation citizen, recently re-elected Snuneymuxw Councillor and Executive Director of Kw’umut Lelum Child & Family Services. Photo by Derek Kilbourn, Gabriola Sounder

Derek Kilbourn

Sounder News

Tuesday, February 13, the Gabriola Arts Council hosted the inaugural Breaking Bannock evening.

There were two guest speakers for the evening.

One was Sqwulutsultun William (Bill) Yoachim, Snuneymuxw First Nation citizen, recently re-elected Snuneymuxw Councillor and Executive Director of Kw’umut Lelum Child & Family Services, and 2022 recipient of the BC Community Achievement Award. He is the co-founder and a key organizer of the annual Hope and Health movement, an event put on in partnership with Whitecaps FC that utilizes soccer to inspire hope and health across Indigenous communities in BC, served for four years on Nanaimo City Council, and six years on the Board of Vancouver Island University.

The other was Gabriolan Katherine Palmer Gordon, lawyer, negotiator, and writer. She has been an ally for, and worked with, Indigenous peoples in New Zealand, and up and down the west coast of Canada, British Columbia, and other regions of the country.

Among the books Palmer has written are these two, both published by Harbour Publishing. We Are Born with the Songs Inside Us: Lives and Stories of First Nations People in British Columbia was published in 2013, featuring a chapter on Bill, and in 2023 Harbour published This Place Is Who We Are: Stories of Indigenous Leadership, Resilience, and Connection to Homelands. On February 25, it was announced that Katherine’s 2023 book had won the Jeanne Clarke Publication Award from the Prince George Public Library Board.The Jeanne Clarke Awards are presented annually by the Prince George Public Library to individuals or groups for outstanding contributions in the preservation and promotion of local history in the categories of Publication and Service.

The two were billed to speak on the topics of strengthening relationships, creating respectful allyships, increasing understanding, and amplifying Indigenous voices.

In her opening, Katherine explained that in her experience as a Chief Negotiator, people will sometimes get her into a hallway or vehicle, and ask her the questions they are too shy to ask in front of a crowd. But for Breaking Bannock, she said, when the evening got to the time to ask questions, that was what she and Bill were there for.

She spoke about a piece in her 2023 book, which amplifies the voices of community leaders of some of the First Nations of the Great Bear Rainforest.

“In the book they are talking about their connection to their homelands, their values, their laws, and visions for future generations.”

Katherine said she gets asked, since she is not Indigenous, but is telling Indigenous stories, how does she elevate understanding.

About how she approached the theme of the book, and what principles about respectful allyship she has gleaned from writing and working with Indigenous people.

Katherine said she believes those principles can be applied in any context, whenever Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities are connected.

“They can be applied here on Gabriola when we’re talking about community planning, about visioning, or about getting a better soccer field.”

She spoke to sharing the stage with Bill for the evening.

In her 2013 book, she referenced writing, “about amazing Indigenous men and women from around the province.

“Bill’s chapter was called We Will Go Forward.” The interview with Bill took place in 2012.

Katherine said, “what he talked about was his story and vision, in which Snuneymuxw are upheld, uplifted and celebrated in their territory.

“Bill is very well positioned to speak to that vision and future. Secondly – Bill can speak to connection and knowledge of this land that we’re sitting on. And what strong relationships look like.”

Excerpt from We Are Born With the Songs Inside Us
Written by Katherine Palmer Gordon, published in 2013.

“Bill has put a lot of thought into … how to bridge the gap between Indigenous people and their fellow British Columbians: what will help remove the barriers that prevent Indigenous people from going forward… many First Nations people are living their lives in extraordinary circumstances, dealing with forcible separation from their culture, discrimination because of the colour of their skin, and irrevocable loss of their land.

[Bill says:] “You take away rights, traditions, the land and the means of self-sustainability—that represents our whole way of life. No wonder we have out-of-control suicide rates, poor health, and bad housing. How do we move forward from that situation?” …

… “I find if you just lay it all out on the table, most people start to understand,” he continues. “With understanding you can start building a relationship, and I think that’s the best way forward for First Nations now—building relationships with their neighbours so our communities can live together as one, while still respecting each other’s rights and differences. It’s a much more positive way to go, and it’s good for everyone. We all have to go forward, First Nations and non-Indigenous people alike, and it’s a lot easier to do it arm in arm than pushing against each other.” …

… An emotional and spiritual benefit comes, too, from respect for and acknowledgement of his First Nation’s cultural identity and right to govern itself in its territory. “With support from our neighbours,” adds Bill, “I believe the day will eventually come when we really can bridge the gap for Snuneymuxw people and we can all go forward together, community to community, with a common vision that is in everyone’s best interests.”

Katherine quoted a piece of Bill’s chapter, in which he spoke to the barriers which existed in 2012 for the Snuneymuxw. Excerpt to the right.

She then asked Bill, “it’s 2024 today, some of those barriers still exist. How does that affect Snuneymuxw people in 2024?”

Bill said, “That was 11 years ago. We fast forward, and we’re having a conversation, Here we are today. All those social issues which I witness in my non-Council day job, co-exist.

“I don’t want to sugarcoat that everything is rosy, but things are slowly improving.”

He pointed to some of those he called champions in the province, saying those champions and the relationships they have built are part of why things are slowly improving.

He cited the Islands Trust. Nanaimo MLA (and Gabriola resident) Sheila Malcolmson, within those who are being champions in BC.

“Our friend Sheila. Our champion in the corridors. Bettering things for our people.”

These champions are the ones working with the province to put in programs like the first 12-step treatment centre for First Nations.

“11 years ago that would have been unheard of.”

Bill said he next wanted to touch on a piece that resonates, and that he was hoping for on his political journey.

He said Reconciliation has been out there for almost a decade. People and organizations more and more are doing things like land acknowledgements, and flag raising,

Bill said, “those things, they are important. They are fine. Necessary. But that’s not all what Reconciliation means.

“Reconciliation is going to be a tough conversation. Reconciliation is hard. And this will be hard, and uncomfortable. But it’s a reality.

“A good reality.”

He said not only does the work take champions in government, but also depends on the people.

“What I hope is people realize when we’re all walking together, we may not have to agree on things, but it’s better for all.” Bill talked about some of the  development needs of the First Nations for housing and for revenue. “But I don’t want to link that everything being Economic Development related.

“It’s like, the land, and how we live on the land, and how [Snuneymuxw] have no land to live on.”

Later in the conversation, Katherine talked about the importance of reciprocity in relationships, and how it is no different in relationships between Indigenous and on-Indigenous people and communities. As an illustration of that principle, Bill spoke to how Snuneymuxw are constantly called upon to review development projects in their territory, and asked to endorse them. Snuneymuxw will talk to the developers about any concerns they have about the land where the project is proposed to be located, and opportunities not only to address those concerns but for reciprocity for everyone’s benefit. As a result, some developers have amended their project to ensure important sites are protected, for example, and provided land for Snuneymuxw to be able to build homes on, in connection with their projects, which has worked well for both parties.

This is in contrast to developers who push ahead, despite Snuneymuxw objections, and who fail to see the importance of being a good ally to the Nation, or of reciprocity and partnership. “That’s never going to have a good result for anyone.”

Bill said Snuneymuxw is, “land poor. Snuneymuxw have the smallest land base per capita in Canada. We don’t have the land to house people in our little reservation today.”

With the ‘working with Snuneymuxw’ example, he said, “instead of just offering token gestures of recognition, they’re [the development] going to thrive, and we are as well. “There’s a way to do it. [The second example] is about deciding to go ahead an unreconciled way. One route is better than the other, in my view, and society’s view, and our Chief and Council’s view.”

Katherine said, “I think that one thing my people want to really understand is what the connection to territory is all about. They want to understand why governments like the province, local, and federal, have to think of and consult with First Nations at law. They want to understand why it is important to engage in reciprocity, and partnerships, and support the First Nation in reconnecting with its territory and with the concept of “Land Back.”

“In order to understand that, you really need to understand the history. One thing very important that someone said to me while I was doing [the newest book] is that before you can set the table for the future, you have to clear it of the past.

“You have to talk about the trauma and history of colonization in order to give context to the vision of the future. The deeper understanding.”

Katherine pointed to the crowd gathered for the event, saying she would be surprised if anyone there didn’t have a good sense of residential schools, disease, and decimation of populations.

“But…to actually understand the impacts of colonization, you have to understand that Indigenous Peoples on the coast here can trace their presence back 14,000 years in being in this territory. That’s over 700 generations. Rome, Egypt, and other civilizations rose and fell during that time.”

Katherine said, “First Nations have sustained themselves despite all [that time] and colonization. They have not only survived but thrived continuously in the places they belong to.”

Even, she said, over the last 300 years when colonization has been decimating their population and attacking their culture, Snuneymuxw have maintained their connection to the land and water.

Katherine said this longevity gave her an understanding of how brilliant the Snuneymuxw laws and government and connection to the land were prior to colonization in order for that to be the case. Those laws governed how to live off the land sustainably, protect it for future generations, survive crises like climate change, and take care of each other in a community.

“The land told you [speaking to Bill] how you should operate, how you should behave towards it and to each other, because the two are inseparable.”

Bill transitioned from this, to talking about Snuneymuxw on Gabriola.

Before Colonization, Snuneymuxw had a presence on Gabriola, along with many other places where they would be depending on the season.

After colonization, “we got shoved in this little reserves.

“Someone might wonder – why today, why is it happening today? The reality is, the reason Snuneymuxw has a presence and will have a presence and be neighbours with you again. is in 1854, we signed the Douglas Treaty. We were to live, fish, and hunt, and this was one of the places. Douglas has been won in every court. And it was always there.

“The Douglas Treaty has been tested, it’s stronger than the rights in the Indian Act.”

Those Treaty rights and Snuneymuxw’s constitutional rights and title are the reason the Nation must be consulted on all land and water uses requiring government permits, and why all those permit applications are referred to the Nation for their consideration. While twenty years ago or more that may have been just a “tick the box” exercise for governments, these days, with better understanding of the need for justice and rectification of the impacts of colonization, and things like the 2019 BC Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act, it is a given that the Nation’s views take priority. Free, prior and informed consent is the basis for the relationship between First Nations and governments, who also now expect project proponents to work with First Nations in advance of applying for a permit.

Bill explained: “The referral process, it has to be signed off. People will contest it. People will say the Nation is going to hold people hostage.

“And no we’re not. We’re going to be part of the process. If you don’t want us to be part of it, that’ll be where you are in your pity process. We’re not going to slash and burn, we’re going to do what is needed, and what our people need. They need the same thing as everyone else in this room.

“Respectful life instead of chasing poverty. That’s the fast version….we’re not holding a club over progress, we just want to be part of progress.”

Katherine said the laws around consultation, the rights of Indigenous peoples, those are complex.

“It’s fair to say that most people don’t know exactly how that process works. There is a relationship constitutionally between Canada, the Province, and First Nations that requires consultation, as laid out by the Supreme Court. That’s a legal obligation.

“But we’re here as a community that share this space, this beautiful island we are on.” It’s up to us to work together as communities, understanding the presence and the rights and responsibilities that Snuneymuxw have on Gabriola, and build a strong and enduring relationship.

Katherine said that when it comes to building relationships, three general principles are, in her experience, really important.

1. Respect

2. As noted above, Reciprocity

3. Understanding.

“So. Understand who do you want to work with. Who are the Nation. Try and learn as much as you can about who they are, the challenges they face, what their hopes and dreams for the future are. I’m betting most people in this room didn’t know Snuneymuxw had the smallest land per capita in Canada. These are important things to know and understand.

“Respect. I’m not going to lecture anyone on what respect is. Everyone in this room is here because you come with respect in your hearts. As an example of what I mean about respect in building a relationship, in my writing – if I want Indigenous people to work with me, give me their time, then respect is, I need to seek endorsement. I need to start at the beginning. When I am thinking about what I want to do. Without imposing an agenda on the conversation.

“Respect means seeking permission. To do the interviews, record interviews, get them transcribed, do story plans, of every single draft, of edits to those drafts, of photos in the book. Everything.”

She described how in her earlier 2012 book, a chapter was pulled one week before printing, at the request of the subject person in the book.

“They were perfectly within their rights to do that. You have to respect that, and be prepared to deal with it.

“Reciprocity. That is such a fundamental principle. It comes into every aspect of what we do.

“If I’m saying to someone in the book, I want to tell your story, I want you to share, I have to ask what can I do for you.

“It’s really important to offer that reciprocity. If you are expecting someone to offer their time and expertise, be prepared to pay for it. All of these are important with reciprocity.

“That’s a long way to say, if we want to work with Snuneymuxw, on Gabriola, it isn’t about the consultation the government does,  as important as that part of the process is. For us, it’s about genuine, authentic engagement, without an agenda, and a real desire to have a relationship.

“About doing the homework. But those are my words.”

She then asked Bill, what would his advice be?

Bill said, “How can we get allies from the folks we get on the island? We will be your greatest ally. We will be shoulder to shoulder at conversations.

“The reality is we’re looking forward to it. The reality is it is happening. We’re going to have to do this together.”

Bill addressed the topic of Snuneymuxw’s future on the Kensington lands on North Road on Gabriola, set aside as lands for Snuneymuxw. “We are going to have some conversations on what is best for Snuneymuxw but also for for those lands.”

He said that was discussed with the Federal Minister a few weeks ago on the same day that the Department of National Defense lands were transferred to Snuneymuxw in Nanaimo.

“So we have to have these conversations. We want to work with the folks here. If it will be anything like the treaty. It will be respectful. I think there is space for everyone. These are very early conversations.

“In all seriousness, we’re going to have to have those conversations down the road.

“I was talking to our Chief, Michael Wyse, about tonight.  And I said, what message, what do we hope to get out of tonight?”

The conclusion, said Bill, was to start building a relationship.

To let Gabriolans know Snuneymuxw are here, to grow and develop.

“And be part of your community, and we want you to be part of our community.

“Basic – good heart, good mind. That’s who we are and that’s who we will be. But in regards to relationships – I wanted to share why the strength is there.  We are going to be here as one.

The reason I get off on that tangent. We’re going to deliver at a relationship level with you folks. Cause there are people who are anti-first nations, the people who think we’re going to do a big Rez. That’s not happening. But you won’t win everyone over. There are going to be all sorts. We’ll get there.”

Katherine said, “just before we open up for questions – I want to close with this thought from a few years ago.”

She described how when she first moved to Gabriola in 2003, an event like Breaking Bannock would not have happened.

In 2009, there was a tour of Snuneymuxw elders and council on Gabriola, Katherine provided a guided bus tour around the island, including trails on the Kensington lands.

At the lunch break, sitting on the back step of her own house with Darren Good, a former Councillor, she was asked by Darren, “Katherine, do you think we’d be welcomed if we came back here?”

Katherine said at Breaking Bannock, “I’m tearing up, thinking how awful it was that he’d have to even ask that.

“I want to say huy ch q’u, for all of you being here, because hopefully nobody has to ask that again.”

The first question Bill and Katherine were asked was if someone had a project, what does conceptuatlization look like to Snuneymuxw? How does one bring that forward to allow Snuneymuxw to be in that relationship?

Bill said it comes down to relationships.

He used the host of the Breaking Bannock as an example, pointing to Anne Poschmann, current President of the Arts Council.

“Anne has created a relationship now that I’m going to carry forward. Anne has built a relationship. It’s as simple as that.

“If Breaking Bannock goes on for a year. That’s great. That’s building relationship.”

In terms of working on building relationships, Katherine said people have to be persistent, but also realize there are a lot of demands being put on First Nations now, with referrals from all governments, as well as people wanting to build those inter-community and personal relationships.

She said that a First Nations Chief is not comparable to a mayor of a city.

“He’ll get phone calls that someone’s stove isn’t working. The next day he’s meeting with federal Cabinet Ministers. The next he’s having to negotiate clean drinking water for his community. He has to have his eye over not just the big picture but the day to day wellbeing of people in his community. There are so many demands on First Nations people.”

Persistence, and patience, are key to working within those relationships, according to Katherine.

She described how the persistence comes in nudging people gently to meet some deadlines and being aware of what is going on for people. Maybe they are out working, or someone is ill, or there is a community event they are volunteering for. I will email, email again, text, text again, send a message on Facebook, call and leave a message, you name it, repeatedly. Patience and understanding are required when the timeline doesn’t match up with her own.

“I have a deadline asking people to approve their participation in a video I’m producing right now for another First Nation. It’s on my to-do list first thing tomorrow to call again the last 2 or 3 people who haven’t responded. You have to take the time to have the understanding and persistence.

“And understand your wish list is not going to happen right away.”

Her example was if someone comes to a Nation, and asks to build a bicycle trail through the Nation’s land.

“If you have no relationship, then you haven’t done your homework yet.

“You have to ask, where does that [proposal] fit within the shared vision. How can we work with you to protect the land and make the new trail accessible for the Nation’s youth to use, for example?

“This is where the reciprocity comes in. And if the trail is the wrong place, whether there is a different solution.

“It’s all about coming in respectfully and having that discussion based on already knowing each other.”

The next question to come to Bill and Katherine were, what are ways to build the relationship, so that the homework, and relationship is there.

Bill said for on Gabriola, there does need to be that building of a relationship, “as we get closer to land transfers.”

He had suggested earlier that the relationship building is a two-way street, that Snuneymuxw needed to work on their presence on Gabriola.

He pointed  to Tsatassaya (Tracey) White, a member of the Snuneymuxw Nation who has taken on a role Program Consultant/advisor to the Arts Council in developing the new Breaking Bannock program.

Bill said she could be someone who could set up events on Gabriola, and further suggested setting up places where Snuneymuxw could have a presence.

“We have to have a presence here in some shape or form. To educate, and have basic information. Sort of like Snuneymuxw 101.

“As we go down and get closer to land transfers, we could have open houses, and share our vision, and learn your vision.

“To answer your question – we have to get a presence – we have a responsibility.

“People can’t just phone Snuneymuxw office and say we want to build a relationship. We have to create a mechanism.”

Bill spoke to the work that has been done over the years by the Gabriola Museum and Tsatassaya Geraldine Manson.

“We have to carry on with that, and work with the Museum and get more involved. Sometimes I feel Tsatassaya gets put difficult situations. She is an amazing woman. Much kudos and love. Sometimes things don’t get through the proper channels back to the community. These things should all be going to Chief and Council.”

He explained that what can happen, is a Snuneymuxw goes somewhere, and participates, and then the host says Snuneymuxw endorses or supports them.

“And we [Council] go what? We have to put out the proper protocol, through proper channels.”

He clarified it isn’t about Council trying to control things, but rather, making sure that something really is endorsed or sanctioned by Snuneymuxw community as a whole.

In terms of reconciliation in  action – an audience member brought up that in recognition that he lives on unceded Snuneymuxw territory, he makes donations to Tillicum Lelum in Nanaimo, since there is nothing in the Gabriola tax levy that is dedicated to go towards First Nations.

He asked if the government could encourage people in the tax bill to voluntarily contribute.

Bill said, “that would be amazing. Obviously you have an amazing heart. Thank you for speaking up and standing and being bold on a conversation many would scurry from.

“I would be very interested in having that. That’s probably up Sheila’s pay grade. They control the municipalities.”

Bill suggested that if someone was interested in making contributions, to look to the Kw’umut Lelum Foundation. Web site: www.klfoundation.ca

The Foundation financial programs available to the 9 Member Nations: Halalt, Lyackson, Málexeł, Penelakut, Qualicum, Snaw-naw-as, Snuneymuxw, Stz’uminus and Ts’uubaa-asatx, and in certain cases the families of the 9 Nations and Post-Secondary Students.

Katherine said, “when you are thinking of updating your will, and don’t know who to leave your property to, you can always leave your property, and leave a fund to pay taxes.”

Bill said for the last Giving Tuesday, from donors throughout the Province, in the Province, Kw’umut Lelum received $60K on that one day.

Bill concluded the event said what he wants to share is not just about First nations getting out of poverty.

It is also about recognizing the First Nations strengths that already exist.

“We have people who have experts in certain areas, we have lots to give back. It is accepting. There is no cost in accepting.

“Opening up. Having a normal conversation. That’s reconciliation.

“Being good humans. Getting away from that prejudice towards our folks. We gotta get past the stigmas. And realize we just gotta be one.”